Pavel... Is that what you think? That it's you? [She looks both surprised and sad that he's been living with that.] It's not any of that. Relationships are as much about timing and what's going on around you as they are about you and the other person. And even the parts about the people involve some dumb chemistry that even the smartest people in the world can't figure out.
As much as I justified it I never wanted to be attracted to Tyki, believe me. It definitely wasn't that he was doing something right. [Is that a good, non-threatening example? Maybe not.]
[He looks surprised by her surprise--at least until she says the reasonable things about timing and chemistry. Just because he suspects that the problem is him doesn't mean that he can't see her rationale.] It would be irresponsible to attribute everything to circumstances and chemistry.
[Maybe it should be comforting to know that, if the circumstances and chemistry are right, even terrible people can do alright for themselves? So, inversely, okay people can fail utterly multiple times through no real fault of their own? ...That is a lot to unpack and he chooses not to address it directly.]
I'm not certain that I will. The times that I thought that maybe I had... Tessa left and fell in love with two other people. I was with Lucy for seventeen months and she still went back to a home where she had nothing and no one. [No need to mention Kitty, she knows that one.] No one who is only unlucky with timing and chemistry can spend at least twenty-six years in four different universes without finding a single person who wants them.
Pavel, you just listed them. You found three people who wanted you. [Tessa, Lucy, and the version of her who he had better timing with even if she doesn't remember that time. Well, better timing until he ended up here anyway.]
Relationships aren't always forever as much as you want them to be. If that was the rule for what made someone wanted then I haven't been either and...I have. [Maybe she could dismiss Tyki. Even Reid and Piotr if she squinted. Vash too, but she's still too in love with Winn to do that. And she doesn't really want to dismiss the others. As much as they hurt at times they had their good moments too and if she's going to hold on to one she should hold on to both. Just not so tightly.] It doesn't mean they don't count at all. There was still a connection for awhile. And it hurts like hell when you still feel it and they don't, [Reid taught her that feeling] but it doesn't make what was less real.
We all have what you could call an extra level of difficulty in these places when it comes to finding something lasting.
Tessa and Lucy chose to leave, and the you who stayed in Marina... I'm not sure that she was real at all. [That's the important part—the wanting to be with him. And the being real, of course, which probably goes without saying.
But he's afraid that Kitty will think he's just being difficult now, or not listening, or too eager to wallow in self-pity to be rational.]
I know that expecting something to last in these places is naive, and I don't. I would just... I would like someone to want me enough to choose me when an alternative is presented, not just when they are sad and lonely and the thing or person that they want is currently unavailable. [Which is exactly what would have happened if Kitty had picked him here, he gets that.
With some forced levity:] Although now I suppose that I would be happy enough if someone just showed interest. I haven't had a date in years. [Eyy, it sounds like a joke and it's not.]
They chose to be with you first. [Reid chose to leave too. But he chose to be with her first. Maybe it's too small a distinction. She knows how sometimes the bad overwhelms the good. It's hard to think of Piotr and not think of the ending when they had a lot of time together that was good too.]
And Marina...is as real as it is to you. [That's the best she's got. Time was wrong. Reality was wrong. Sometimes the memories were falsified or emotions or physical changes were forced on them. It was a strange place but it's part of her now. That's real. Or that's how she chooses to see it.]
I really do think you'll find someone who wants to choose you. Or maybe you'll want to choose them. [If Lucy could have gone with him then he could have gone with Lucy too, right? Maybe she declined. Kitty isn't sure and doesn't want to grill him about the past.] Or maybe you'll choose each other in some Gift of the Magi kind of way.
[It's definitely not lost on her that she is putting Vash through the very thing he's describing now and if she'd been with Chekov instead it would just be him in that same position. She hopes he gets why she couldn't do that to him. She hopes the other her wasn't doing the same thing but as a rebound from her relationship with Reid. She'd hope if she did she was at least honest about it like she is with Vash now.]
Dating is a good idea. It could always be something more casual too.
[He's seriously failing at saying that they--or Lucy, anyway--were primarily with him because he was available and nonthreatening and better than being alone, but it's not worth trying to get across. It's also not worth insisting that whether Kitty in Marina was a version of Kitty or just a program actually does impact his perception of things, or saying that he hasn't been given a chance to choose (it's complicated), or telling her that he hasn't met anyone with the slightest interest in him in the Fleet. It doesn't matter.
Since he's not saying any of that, he nods and tries not to look as defeated as he feels.]
[If this weren't video she'd probably just reach over and hug him right now. Maybe it's good that it is video. Maybe that's the wrong move. Maybe she's already doing too much because she doubts he's coming around so much as she thinks he's closing off. Maybe she should be talking less and listening more. Not her strongest suit, but she wants to try.]
[Hugging is always the right move... except for times like this when hugger and huggee are separated by the vacuum of space. They don't work well in situations like that.
He hesitates and considers making a joke or doing something else to shut this down and keep himself from talking more. Talking with Kitty led to some pretty serious regrets last time he decided to go for it. (He probably needs other friends he feels comfortable talking to.)]
...Unlikely. Lonely. Like loneliness is deserved, maybe, and inevitable.
[She fights back the urge to tell him he's none of those things because he's feeling them so it's real to him. She just hopes he knows she's not cosigning them either.] Why do you think it's deserved?
At home, I'm not very good at staying. And away from home, I don't know that I give people many reasons to want to stay. [That's a whole can of insecurities that he's been ignoring for ages, though, and he backtracks abruptly to get away from that. Kitty's trying to help, it's time to be helped!
He tries for a smile and mostly succeeds.] But what I don't feel is unloved. Thank you for that, Kitty.
You are loved and I definitely don't want less of you in my life. [But that kind of comes back to how this whole thing started.] Unless it's for your benefit. [Both things can be true.]
You make me feel that too. You've been a great friend to me.
[She tilts her head, looking at him curiously.] Do you think you're priorities have changed?
I don't want less of you either. After experimentation, I can say with great confidence that I am not at all benefited by less time with you.
[He has not been a great friend in the Fleet, but it seems counterproductive to remind her of all of the not-helping he's been doing. Maybe she's grading on a scale that doesn't involve utility.]
[She still thinks he's a great friend. What more counts? Friends aren't about how much they do for you. Not that she could give a proper definition if she tried.]
You said you aren't very good at staying at home. Do you think you'd prioritize a relationship over your career now? I mean, I'm not saying you should or that it's better. I was just wondering if what you want has changed that much.
[They're in agreement! Continuing to hang out it is.
Pavel knows who his friends are; he doesn't have any real criteria. When it comes to determining who considers him a friend, however, there's a built-in assumption on his part that he has to be of some use to them. It's like being on a crew--you earn your place.]
I think... maybe, if I loved someone and they asked me to stay with them, I would. [That feels correct. Maybe he'd think differently if he suspected there was a chance that someone other than his father would ask him to stick around.] If I thought that they would be happier with me there.
Edited (changed it 'cause I hated my first reply and figured you wouldn't mind!) 2018-11-30 17:51 (UTC)
[She's glad for that and she hopes he means it and doesn't just want to say it to make her feel better. She wouldn't put that past him! But she's going to trust in his words and do her best not to second guess them. It's not up to her to decide what's best for him. He answered for himself.]
Who wouldn't be happier with you? [Not that she'd expect everyone to ask him to make a life altering decision to stay with them. And she has nowhere to ask someone to stay. The answer does feel like a change though. When she first met him in the prison she didn't think he'd ever potentially choose anyone over Star Fleet.]
[Say something just to make Kitty feel better? He would never! He would but she would catch him.]
Probably more people than I would like to imagine. [He says it like a joke, but it seems highly possible that Kitty, at least, would be happier without him around. Her happiest times, by her own admission, in Marina and the Fleet happened when he wasn't there... which he knows is more coincidence than anything else, but it does mean that he has never been that successful at making her happy--not like Reid or Winn. Maybe he helped in Marina where he could listen to her problems, offer affection when she needed it, and provide light, uncomplicated company the rest of the time, but he's useless to her in the Fleet. If anything, he's making her unhappier by making her feel bad about things like kissing Vash.
She could pick up on the gist of that bracket text either by virtue of knowing Pavel for a long time or by virtue of him being just as transparent now as he was when they first met. A lot has changed--most of it for the worst, like his increasing doubt about his abilities as a Starfleet officer and growing suspicion that he'll never belong anywhere or be worth much of anything--but that has not.
ANYWAY whether she picks anything up or not, he's going to move along in case his reply didn't land like the joke it was meant to be.]
But it doesn't matter very much because everyone in the Fleet has me until the Atroma decide otherwise.
[The joke portion definitely feels see through to her given other conversations or earlier in this one.] Okay, that was a rhetorical question meant to just state that no one would be happier without you. Just accept it. [She knows it's not that easy, but she's putting her verbal foot down anyway. If nothing else she assumes he imagines some throngs of other people. She isn't thinking he could mean her.
She's less sure what to say to the last part. It sounds like he just feels trapped and well, he is. They all are. But most days she doesn't just feel trapped. But maybe that's the difference between being dead back home or not.]
Sorry, sorry. I thought that you were asking for a list. [He did not think that at all, but he is sorry. Kitty's trying. She's wrong and doesn't seem to remember that he's never made her happy, but the effort is there and the least he can do is act helped.
He attributes the lack of a further response to annoyance or frustration, which is fair and, honestly, same.]
Never. Lists are the worst. All those things in order? Who can stand it? [Trying to joke around and lighten the mood. Is it working? Should she do a tight 5 on lists?]
If you have a list of people who like lists I'd love to hear it. [What a topic they've landed on. This is the safest of territories and could surely never fail them.]
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As much as I justified it I never wanted to be attracted to Tyki, believe me. It definitely wasn't that he was doing something right. [Is that a good, non-threatening example? Maybe not.]
You'll find your person and your timing.
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[Maybe it should be comforting to know that, if the circumstances and chemistry are right, even terrible people can do alright for themselves? So, inversely, okay people can fail utterly multiple times through no real fault of their own? ...That is a lot to unpack and he chooses not to address it directly.]
I'm not certain that I will. The times that I thought that maybe I had... Tessa left and fell in love with two other people. I was with Lucy for seventeen months and she still went back to a home where she had nothing and no one. [No need to mention Kitty, she knows that one.] No one who is only unlucky with timing and chemistry can spend at least twenty-six years in four different universes without finding a single person who wants them.
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Relationships aren't always forever as much as you want them to be. If that was the rule for what made someone wanted then I haven't been either and...I have. [Maybe she could dismiss Tyki. Even Reid and Piotr if she squinted. Vash too, but she's still too in love with Winn to do that. And she doesn't really want to dismiss the others. As much as they hurt at times they had their good moments too and if she's going to hold on to one she should hold on to both. Just not so tightly.] It doesn't mean they don't count at all. There was still a connection for awhile. And it hurts like hell when you still feel it and they don't, [Reid taught her that feeling] but it doesn't make what was less real.
We all have what you could call an extra level of difficulty in these places when it comes to finding something lasting.
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But he's afraid that Kitty will think he's just being difficult now, or not listening, or too eager to wallow in self-pity to be rational.]
I know that expecting something to last in these places is naive, and I don't. I would just... I would like someone to want me enough to choose me when an alternative is presented, not just when they are sad and lonely and the thing or person that they want is currently unavailable. [Which is exactly what would have happened if Kitty had picked him here, he gets that.
With some forced levity:] Although now I suppose that I would be happy enough if someone just showed interest. I haven't had a date in years. [Eyy, it sounds like a joke and it's not.]
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And Marina...is as real as it is to you. [That's the best she's got. Time was wrong. Reality was wrong. Sometimes the memories were falsified or emotions or physical changes were forced on them. It was a strange place but it's part of her now. That's real. Or that's how she chooses to see it.]
I really do think you'll find someone who wants to choose you. Or maybe you'll want to choose them. [If Lucy could have gone with him then he could have gone with Lucy too, right? Maybe she declined. Kitty isn't sure and doesn't want to grill him about the past.] Or maybe you'll choose each other in some Gift of the Magi kind of way.
[It's definitely not lost on her that she is putting Vash through the very thing he's describing now and if she'd been with Chekov instead it would just be him in that same position. She hopes he gets why she couldn't do that to him. She hopes the other her wasn't doing the same thing but as a rebound from her relationship with Reid. She'd hope if she did she was at least honest about it like she is with Vash now.]
Dating is a good idea. It could always be something more casual too.
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Since he's not saying any of that, he nods and tries not to look as defeated as he feels.]
Maybe.
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How does it feel to you?
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He hesitates and considers making a joke or doing something else to shut this down and keep himself from talking more. Talking with Kitty led to some pretty serious regrets last time he decided to go for it. (He probably needs other friends he feels comfortable talking to.)]
...Unlikely. Lonely. Like loneliness is deserved, maybe, and inevitable.
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He tries for a smile and mostly succeeds.] But what I don't feel is unloved. Thank you for that, Kitty.
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You make me feel that too. You've been a great friend to me.
[She tilts her head, looking at him curiously.] Do you think you're priorities have changed?
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[He has not been a great friend in the Fleet, but it seems counterproductive to remind her of all of the not-helping he's been doing. Maybe she's grading on a scale that doesn't involve utility.]
How do you mean?
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[She still thinks he's a great friend. What more counts? Friends aren't about how much they do for you. Not that she could give a proper definition if she tried.]
You said you aren't very good at staying at home. Do you think you'd prioritize a relationship over your career now? I mean, I'm not saying you should or that it's better. I was just wondering if what you want has changed that much.
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Pavel knows who his friends are; he doesn't have any real criteria. When it comes to determining who considers him a friend, however, there's a built-in assumption on his part that he has to be of some use to them. It's like being on a crew--you earn your place.]
I think... maybe, if I loved someone and they asked me to stay with them, I would. [That feels correct. Maybe he'd think differently if he suspected there was a chance that someone other than his father would ask him to stick around.] If I thought that they would be happier with me there.
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Who wouldn't be happier with you? [Not that she'd expect everyone to ask him to make a life altering decision to stay with them. And she has nowhere to ask someone to stay. The answer does feel like a change though. When she first met him in the prison she didn't think he'd ever potentially choose anyone over Star Fleet.]
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He would but she would catch him.]Probably more people than I would like to imagine. [He says it like a joke, but it seems highly possible that Kitty, at least, would be happier without him around. Her happiest times, by her own admission, in Marina and the Fleet happened when he wasn't there... which he knows is more coincidence than anything else, but it does mean that he has never been that successful at making her happy--not like Reid or Winn. Maybe he helped in Marina where he could listen to her problems, offer affection when she needed it, and provide light, uncomplicated company the rest of the time, but he's useless to her in the Fleet. If anything, he's making her unhappier by making her feel bad about things like kissing Vash.
She could pick up on the gist of that bracket text either by virtue of knowing Pavel for a long time or by virtue of him being just as transparent now as he was when they first met. A lot has changed--most of it for the worst, like his increasing doubt about his abilities as a Starfleet officer and growing suspicion that he'll never belong anywhere or be worth much of anything--but that has not.
ANYWAY whether she picks anything up or not, he's going to move along in case his reply didn't land like the joke it was meant to be.]
But it doesn't matter very much because everyone in the Fleet has me until the Atroma decide otherwise.
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She's less sure what to say to the last part. It sounds like he just feels trapped and well, he is. They all are. But most days she doesn't just feel trapped. But maybe that's the difference between being dead back home or not.]
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He attributes the lack of a further response to annoyance or frustration, which is fair and, honestly, same.]
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